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Post by hiding on Oct 17, 2012 4:45:09 GMT -5
This masturbatory conversation is in large part the problem. And judging from how it's unfolding currently, not part of the solution. Please stop. If you want to change something, then change it. But enabling even more bitching and moaning isn't fixing anything. Especially when the very people that started the conversation are the ones being so vehemently defensive. Just prove your worth. Chat boards are a joke in NYC for good reason. And mid-level artists and even top-level artists read them and are hurt by them. Just do. We have enough outlets already for the moaning. This does no one good. I beg you to look at the posts that have happened so far and to reexamine what the intent of this was and if it is fulfilling that intent. And if it's not, please reevaluate and learn something and re-frame. Or if this is what you wanted it to be, then by all means keep going.
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Post by anonymous on Oct 17, 2012 7:40:38 GMT -5
I disagree, hiding. I think the "bitching and moaning" as you call it is a necessary part of the process, and I find nothing "masturbatory" about it. Before action can be taken, first you have to address what needs to change. The artists in this community have been invited to openly and anonymously, without fear of judgment or persecution, share their thoughts on what is holding us back from standing among the best. You can't do that without hearing some things you may not want to or stepping on some toes. That's one reason this kind of talk only happens behind closed doors and nothing is ever really done about it. I do agree that we should take less time defending people's remarks and just let them be what they are- a person's opinion. An opinion that must be valued and considered if we're going to move forward. And the chat board is the only anonymous platform that I know of that truly allows for this kind of necessary anonymity. If you know of a better way, please share it with us.
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Post by Guest00 on Oct 17, 2012 8:23:29 GMT -5
How about encouraging the following approach:
These are the areas I believe need improvement:
a
b
c
These are the actions I believe we should take:
a
b
c
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Post by bemused on Oct 17, 2012 9:43:48 GMT -5
First, what is this theatre community you speak of.... who belongs to it and how do they qualify?
Rather than speculate, why not have the emaciated corpse of RAPT do something useful and coordinate a customer survey of all the theatres to find out what your customers think, not what you think they think.
Then do one for the general public.
Then you have some data to talk about, not opinions.
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Post by RVAer on Oct 17, 2012 12:07:44 GMT -5
Anon---
I appreciate the fact that you've shared your honest reaction and perception of the situation that currently exists and I applaud you for using this forum to express those feelings. That's exactly what all of this is about. The big question is, what is it that sets cities like DC and New York apart from Richmond as "real" theatre destinations. Besides having larger populations that support a higher volume of theatre companies and theatrical projects, is the product that is being delivered really "better?" To date, I have walked out of exactly one production because I thought it was terrible and thought my time was better spent anywhere other than in that theater to watch Act 2. Did I mention this was a Broadway show? I've seen fringe theatre in DC, New York, Chicago, and other cities. I personally don't think the things I have seen there rank as better than any productions I've seen in Richmond. I know that puts me in the minority. I understand that this a perspective not shared by large numbers of audience members (and potential audience members). Why? What would those people need to see to change their minds?
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Post by Guest11 on Oct 17, 2012 12:44:50 GMT -5
All of these points, both the positive and the negative, are exactly why I think TheatreLAB is attempting to promote this conversation. When these thoughts are kept internal, there is no chance to develop them and use them as inspiration to make change. The success of Manhattan's theatre scene didn't happen overnight, and I'm sure it didn't happen without a few disagreements.
The one topic that keeps popping up that I find most intriguing is this fantasy that everyone who goes to NYC, Atlanta or Chicago is going to be able to make a swanky, comfortable living working in theatre. I know/have known a LOT of people who have worked on Broadway, major motion pictures, and hugely successful television shows...and then when the contract is over they go back to their temp. job, or bartending/serving job, or even *GASP* come to Richmond to do a show. This is entertainment as a business that we're talking about here -- the success is fleeting. If you think you'll leave Richmond for a "larger market" and go through your life working only in theatre, making enough money to live comfortably, then I wish you the best of luck, but I encourage you to head to these larger markets with a few extra tricks up your sleeves!
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Post by Anonymous on Oct 17, 2012 13:46:28 GMT -5
bemused- Please note the description on the home page: "We will be canvassing people throughout Richmond (artists, professionals, students, patrons, and those who are not yet patrons) and sharing our findings with the community."
We WILL be talking to the public. We are starting this process with the artists. And the RVA Theatre Community is ANYONE who is involved with the production of theatre here. As for RAPT, we have no control over what they do or don't do. We are doing this because we feel it is important and valuable. Any other clarifications?
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Post by bemused on Oct 17, 2012 14:29:11 GMT -5
Snarky answer aside, anonymous, who are"we"? Some guy getting high and asking his bestest buds to reinforce his own opinions or a valid business like gathering of data. RAPT is part of this " theatre community" illusion some many of the posters on this blog think is so vital, yet you brush them aside, when they are the logical ones to conduct it. YOU need any clarifications?
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Post by philcrosby on Oct 17, 2012 14:33:15 GMT -5
To address bemused statements about RAPT, that organization is very aware that it needs to re-look at itself and how it can be beneficial to the theatre community in ways it isn't now. That conversation is ongoing and, they too, are open to input. The goal is to serve the community and community input is desired.
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Post by Anonymous on Oct 17, 2012 14:34:00 GMT -5
I don't know what snarkiness you're talking about bemused, but you seem to be the one with the questionable attitude here. RAPT makes their own decisions about what they do or don't do. No one is brushing them aside. (They seem to have done that all by themselves.) And yes, WE ARE HIGH. Hi8gh on love for our theatre community. ;D
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Post by Guest11 on Oct 17, 2012 15:21:59 GMT -5
Let's make every attempt to stay constructive!
Bemused -- I think your mention of collecting data is important. I see this discussion board as being the first step toward the collection useful data. In order to determine which areas need to be investigated, the community (which in this sense is, I believe, a much more broad definition of the word than what you're re reading) must have a platform for sharing concerns, constructive criticism and solutions. After the voices of many have been heard, TheatreLAB should be able to find common denominators across the board and proceed. Who knows where this discussion will lead, but open dialogue is certainly worthwhile, and if the momentum is turned into progress, it's invaluable. I'm sure everyone has varying degrees in faith w/ regards to how successful it'll be, but we have to start somewhere.
I have considered myself a part of this community (because I have been a steady contributor and patron, and simply because I like Richmond) for over 10 years, and I have honestly only known RAPT to be a way to get discount tickets. Admittedly, I haven't thought to actively seek out information because they haven't been on the radar, so thank you for mentioning their organization. Perhaps they can be of assistance with this experiment.
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Post by shannonmccallister on Oct 18, 2012 0:14:46 GMT -5
The theatre community is made up those who work in or for the theatre and those who attend performances at the theatre. As audience members you have every right to voice the type of shows and quality of shows you are willing to spend your hard earned money on. However, what you may not realize is that you also have the ability to actively shape the theatres through your participation behind the scenes, in the workshops or in the front of house (area where audience sits & the lobby.) Theatres value their volunteers. And the volunteer program is open to anyone willing to commit the time. Volunteering will also help you see things from a different perspective and bring a greater understanding. Perhaps my earlier comment was too bluntly put, as I simply wanted to make everyone aware that they have the power to create change and shape theatres (and theatrical venues of the performing arts) by becoming more than just an observer in a seat. When I hear the frustration behind the complaints, it makes me wonder if the complainer realizes the ability they have, or if they have been told by someone in the past that they don't belong or are not talented enough. The bottom line is that theatre is a business. And unlike a lot of businesses where you can't go into an office and start working on the computer if you are not employed, theatres provide opportunities for outsiders (those who are not trained in the skills required to run the theatre) to be a part of it by asking for volunteers. In this case, theatrelab is asking for your feedback. And myself and many involved in the theatres here in Richmond are listening.
As for the second part of my comments, it was an attempt to show that if professionalism is dictated by production value (ie elaborate sets, costumes, lights---the equivalent of a blockbuster hollywood movie) then the title of professional theatre would be assigned to only those that had the budget for big spectacle shows. This knocks out a lot of good theatres here in Richmond. And therefore would account for the voiced idea of there only being 2 professional theatres here. If you feel this way, then how do we change your mind? How do we convince you that professionalism does not equal large elaborate productions?
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Post by Guest00 on Oct 18, 2012 8:24:01 GMT -5
I think this whole issue boils down to resources and how those resources are used. Any business will try to do as much as they can for as little as they can. In the theatre world, that translates to putting on as many shows as possible with the smallest budget possible. You grow your audience, apply for more grants, and you try to establish yourself as the kind of theatre the public wants to support. We have many theatres in Richmond who either are or who are successfully becoming that, much to their credit. But here's the thing- as their resources grow, so should the quality of their product. In general, that doesn't seem to be the case. An example: Let's say my theatre has a $30,000 annual budget. First, I have a choice. How many productions will that budget go to? Well, if I do four productions, about $7500 a play. If I do three, $10,000 a play. If I do two, say a Fall and a Spring, that's $15,000 a play. (That's a BIG difference.) The quality of a show with a $15,000 budget is a lot different than one with a $7500 budget. Audiences are the first to notice that difference in quality, and the audiences are the ones who will determine your success. I would wager that if many of our theatre companies used their budgets to put up two high-quality, professional, top-tier productions instead of four shoe-stringers, that change alone would dynamically shift the perception of our public, and help establish us as a great theatre town. There's SO MUCH theatre happening here. I would almost say there's too much for the demand. The emphasis seems to be on quantity, not quality. Fewer productions would create a greater demand and greater excitement, and would allow for more time and money for marketing, but most importantly, more time and money to create the best quality theatre. Then, when your budget grows from $30,000 to $50,000, then and only then do you add another show to your season. You do more only when you can afford to without compromising standards. I believe this is the kind of shift that we need to see. If my logic is off somehow, I'd love to hear from those who manage theatre companies to help me understand.
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Post by kirby on Oct 18, 2012 8:56:19 GMT -5
I think this discussion has gotten a wee bit ugly, which i do not believe was the intention of the TheatreLAB. However, this is sometimes what can happen on these anonymous blogs. So lets all take a breather.... Better??
I think everyone has a valid point, and a very interesting perspective. It IS hard to change people's minds...but not impossible. I do believe it takes a lot of face time in the community. It means going out to community events and raising awareness. I cannot tell you how often I see someone at a community event who has no idea who these companies are. I cannot tell you how important, in my limited experience, word of mouth truly is. You see it in a number of productions in the area, shows normally don't start selling out until people hear about them from a friend or family member. So how hard is it to take some time out of a weekend to go around and talk to people to raise awareness?
I also wanted to respond to a part of the response i got from earlier from TheatreXpert. While i totally agree with you on the money thing, it is a tough issue for many to afford everything, I want to respond to the other point i made about glee clubs and dance classes.
If you a) went to a high school in richmond you know that there are plenty of high schools in the area who do not have a thriving music program. It's very sad, and i wish it was different, but at my high school the music teacher did not have an effective hold on the choral program and they never went past a sectional competition. As for dance classes, affording a dance class in the richmond area is harder than you think. Yes, there is minds in motion for younger kids, but that isnt enough. for one dance class per week at richmond dance center (and a number of other places) it is $250.00. More if you take more than one class. I know a ton of people who cannot afford that. I understand where you are coming from, and I respect your argument, but I have heard first hand from numerous high school students how they wish there were more opportunities to perform.
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Post by Admin on Oct 18, 2012 9:23:17 GMT -5
Hello, kirby. Thanks for that. It's true that anonymity can sometimes bring out the worst in people, but I think things are beginning to get on track. In the future, please try to respond within the thread that contains what you're responding to. For instance, the second part of your post should be in the "Opportunities" thread. That will help us keep things organized and on track. Thanks! Please use that word of mouth to get others involved in this discussion! We need to hear from everyone.
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